T O P
Vulphere

**New** * With 94, you’ll find a selection of six fun seasonal Colorways (available for a limited time only). Now you can find a color to suit (or lift) your every mood. Fun fact: Did you know we have more daily users with color themes than dark or Alpenglow on Beta? With Firefox 89, 32% of users clicked through to customize their color theme. And that was just on the first day! We decided to introduce these new Colorways to give our users more to love. * Firefox macOS now uses Apple's low power mode for fullscreen video on YouTube and Twitch. This meaningfully extends battery life in long viewing sessions. Now your kids can find out what the fox says on a loop without you ever missing a beat… * With this release, power users can use [about:unloads](https://support.mozilla.org/kb/unload-inactive-tabs-save-system-memory-firefox) to release system resources by manually unloading tabs without closing them. * On Windows, there will now be fewer interruptions because Firefox won’t prompt you for updates. Instead, a background agent will download and install updates even if Firefox is closed. * To better protect all Firefox users against side-channel attacks such as Spectre, we’ve introduced [Site Isolation](https://hacks.mozilla.org/2021/05/introducing-firefox-new-site-isolation-security-architecture/). We’ve got your back...errr...side! * We’re rolling out the [Firefox Multi-Account Containers](https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/multi-account-containers/) extension with [Mozilla VPN](https://www.mozilla.org/products/vpn/) integration. This lets you use a different server location for each container. * Firefox no longer warns you by default when you exit the browser or close a window using a menu, button, or three-key command. This should cut back on unwelcome notifications which is always nice--however, if you prefer a bit of notice, you’ll still have full control over the quit/close modal behavior. All warnings can be managed within Firefox Settings. No worries! ([More details](https://support.mozilla.org/kb/how-configure-close-tab-warnings-firefox)) * And now, Firefox supports the new Snap Layouts menus when running on Windows 11. Fixed * We’ve reduced the overhead of using performance.mark() and performance.measure() APIs with a large set of performance entries. * Plus, we’ve modified paint suppression during load to greatly improve warmload performance in Site Isolation mode. * You’ll also notice a small reduction in Javascript memory usage. With this release, you’ll notice faster Javascript property enumeration as well. * We’ve also implemented better scheduling of garbage collection which has improved some pageload benchmarks. * This release also sees reduced CPU usage during socket polling for HTTPS connections. * Additionally, you’ll notice faster storage initialization. * We’ve also improved cold startup by reducing main thread I/O. * Plus, closing devtools now reclaims more memory than ever before. * And we’ve improved pageload (especially with Site Isolation mode) by setting a higher priority for loading and displaying images. * [Various security fixes](https://www.mozilla.org/security/advisories/mfsa2021-48/) **Enterprise** * Enterprise users now have more control over Firefox deployments with the availability of our MSIX package on Windows platforms. You’ll also notice various bug fixes and new policies have been implemented in this latest version of Firefox. See more details in the [Firefox for Enterprise 94 Release Notes](https://support.mozilla.org/kb/firefox-enterprise-94-release-notes). **Developer** [Developer Information](https://developer.mozilla.org/docs/Mozilla/Firefox/Releases/94) **Community Contributions** With the release of Firefox 94, we would like to thank all the developers who contributed their first code change to Firefox in this release, 5 of whom were brand new volunteers! Please join us in thanking each of these diligent and enthusiastic individuals, and take a look at their contributions: * bvandersloot: [Bug 1671182](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1671182) \- Remove "cache" feature from Clear-Site-Data * colin.cazabet: [Bug 1619312](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1691312) \- Highlighting all occurrences of a selected token, [Bug 1654257](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1654257)\- Images with incorrect mime-type won't appear when Network is filtered with "Images" * Ben: [Bug 1656651](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1656651) \- Improve the management and reporting of the pausing of RSS feeds. * Hanna Jones: [Bug 1723989](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1723989) \- Printing modal animation is displayed even when the show animation is switched off on Windows * Noah Pesta: [Bug 1699593](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1699593) \- Remove default icon styles from info-pages.css .title class * Shaoting Huang: [Bug 1712370](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1712370) \- Rename --panel-banner-item-warning-icon-bgcolor variable


UnfetteredThoughts

You failed to include > And on Linux, we’ve improved WebGL performance and reduced power consumption for many users. in the **New** section


Abidan-Jury

Yay!


that_leaflet

They didn't fail to include it, Mozilla did.


UnfetteredThoughts

? I pulled that text right from the linked article.


that_leaflet

Yup, but the original changelog from Mozilla didn't include it, it was edited in after.


ilep

Yes, this was discussed before: [https://mozillagfx.wordpress.com/2021/10/30/switching-the-linux-graphics-stack-from-glx-to-egl/](https://mozillagfx.wordpress.com/2021/10/30/switching-the-linux-graphics-stack-from-glx-to-egl/)


Fearless_Process

Now that site isolation is implemented does this mean firefox will run each site in it's own process like chromium does? Also with no limit on the amount of processes? If so this is big news!


bottolf

I dunno about Colorways, but this is still the best browser and certainly the most deserving of growth in market share.


postinstall

> With Firefox 89, 32% of users clicked through to customize their color theme. Of course they did. The default one was terrible :))


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anxietydoge

[https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/introducing-new-colorways-for-firefox-94/](https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/introducing-new-colorways-for-firefox-94/) >Coming from the fashion industry, the limited edition drop, to those outside the industry, could really feel like this money grab where you’re like, “Doing this one special…” But for people who love fashion and people who love expression, it’s so special and it has so much evocative meaning to people. > >\[...\] > >In this release, there are 18 themes based on six Colorways with three experiences of each color — soft, balanced and bold. These Colorways are here for the next two product releases (they won’t go away if you’ve selected it). This is a limited-time release which is intended to embrace the “now moment.” We know colors trends are always changing to offer delight and excitement seasonally. So these will be spotlighted for two cycles of release in Firefox onboarding as limited time play to enjoy to spark more engagement and interest.


JockstrapCummies

2021: The Year of Using Firefox As A Fashion Statement


Odzinic

No mention of [Firefox starting to use EGL](https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Firefox-94-EGL-Linux-Usage) in the release. Is it hidden away in the list somewhere?


GRAPHENE9932

Here it is: >And on Linux, we’ve improved WebGL performance and reduced power consumption for many users.


ipaqmaster

Excellent


TheAcenomad

> With this release, power users can use `about:unloads` to release system resources by manually unloading tabs without closing them. Great news for students, or really anyone who has ever had 50+ tabs open working on a project or has been deep in the debugging rabbit hole


Adopt_a_Mud_Golem

>or really anyone who has ... family members who do not believe in bookmarks.


NGGJamie

Shout-out to my friend that keeps not less than 2 maximized browsers open each with so many tabs the icons have to scroll.


Adopt_a_Mud_Golem

[FEEL MY PAIN](https://i.imgur.com/Afxv8eW.png)


JanewaDidNuthinWrong

Thanks RAM abuse still isn't illegal


SigilOfCannabis

How many terabytes of ram is that using?


Adopt_a_Mud_Golem

Not much, tabs only use a lot of ram once they are actually loaded. I had one System with 10k+ tabs and that was on a 16 Gig Box.


odnish

I had so many tabs open that the Power Close extension stopped working. I think it was somewhere around 7000 tabs.


MonokelPinguin

Icons scrolling is the default, isn't it? I rarely have less than 200 tabs open.


arkiel

You should consider using the tree style tabs extension, it does wonder when you keep a lot of tabs open.


MonokelPinguin

I mean, I am doing fine right now. Getting used to a different spacial model would probably take a while, but I appreciate the recommendation!


daemonpenguin

What is wrong with your brain?


Arnas_Z

You should setup an autoclose of tabs one week and older, hahahaha. Then maybe they'll learn to use bookmarks after they lose their precious tabs.


igorlogius

That is just pure evil, so I feel like i have to propose something `slightly` less evil. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/auto-close-tabs/ Since i dont think it is a good idea when users have to lose open text inputs.


Arnas_Z

Perfect. :)


elatllat

Bookmark all is the way. Or DFS.


Atemu12

Bookmarks are cumbersome to use and don't keep auxiliary info like what tabs are open next to it and the tab's history. What's DFS? (Other than depth first search)


Ictogan

[Tab stash](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tab-stash/) is a pretty good best-of-both-worlds solution IMO. You preserve the history and order, don't have the cumbersomeness of creating bookmarks but also have your tabs in a neat list rather than a long tab bar.


PinappleButtPlug

I use [Simple Tab Groups](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/simple-tab-groups/). It doesn't save your tabs as bookmarks, but it does let you organize your tabs into different groups (bet you didn't guess that form the name). Really love it to organize tabs or to stow some tabs away for later use.


Almighty_Sand_Dollar

Bookmarks are cumbersome? Just organize them into folders and always use the toolbar. It's never been a problem here


Atemu12

If I wanted to "suspend" a research session of, say, 30 tabs, I'd have to open the first, scroll to the last, shift click it and then navigate through a tree of context menus. That's super cumbersome. It's much simpler to not bother and just keep them open.


JockstrapCummies

>folders The new generation of computer users don't know how to navigate folders.


mmirate

DFS is for computers. Human minds are far too puny to keep the closed set memorized in order to keep to 1 tab and DFS.


elatllat

More like - DFS=10 tabs - BFS=10,000 tabs


acdcfanbill

I routinely have several hundred open with tree-style-tabs.


Almighty_Sand_Dollar

I just bought a new MBP and it was reporting Firefox was like 117GB of RAM the other day , including swap??? That can't be possible. Even with a few tabs and several extensions. The machine only has 16GB of memory.


spazturtle

Mac OS is pretty good at staying responsive whilst using large amounts of swap, and you won't really notice when it is a program like a web browser that is being shoved into the swap.


IronCraftMan

> With this release, power users can use about:unloads to release system resources by manually unloading tabs without closing them. That sounds amazing. For the past 5 years or so using Safari on macOS I've been able to open Activity Monitor and find and kill problematic open tabs (as it shows the URL as the process name instead of a generic child process). Though Firefox doesn't use as much RAM as Safari/Chrome. > With 94, you’ll find a selection of six fun seasonal Colorways (available for a limited time only). Now you can find a color to suit (or lift) your every mood. I really don't understand why we need to have limited-time skins in a web browser, but at least I'll be able to change to a non-white UI. Personally, I've always hated an entirely white background, even just a shade of gray or off-white is much better (and I find it harder to read in dark mode, like approximately half of the population).


LiveLM

> I've always hated an entirely white background Me too, really don't get why pure white is used so often nowadays. Recently Duck Duck Go changed their look and now the search header is fully white instead of gray, and the only separation between header and search results is a thin line. Looks pretty bad.


mitko17

> For the past 5 years or so using Safari on macOS I've been able to open Activity Monitor and find and kill problematic open tabs (as it shows the URL as the process name instead of a generic child process). Do you mean: about:performance It's been there for ages.


IronCraftMan

That just closes the tab. I want to keep the tab open but stop the process.


SpinaBifidaOcculta

Is this the release that fixes pop-up menus/tooltips/the like on Wayland?


awesomesh

I've been playing with Wayland recently and I think I've seen the issue with menus that you're talking about. For me, the solution was to install the firefox-wayland package (On fedora, so I used sudo dnf install firefox-wayland) and use the "Firefox on Wayland" shortcut rather than the regular shortcut. My understanding is this sets a couple of flags and/or environment variables that are needed to tell Firefox to run using Wayland rather than Xwayland. You should be able to tell which Firefox is using by installing and then running xeyes and then moving your mouse into the firefox window. If the eyes move, this is likely your problem.


TheSnaggen

On fedora it will already use Wayland by default when you use a Wayland session. The firefox-wayland package is not needed anymore, it was only needed when Wayland was not default, and was actually removed after that, but was brought back to be consistent with the x11 package or something like that... anyway, not needed.


awesomesh

Oh how right you are. I logged into Wayland just to test what you were saying and I thought it was firefox vs firefox-wayland, but I didn't have any difference in behavior there - they were both broken! What did help was going to about:config and changing layout.css.devPixelsPerPx from 1.2 (which I had set manually a while ago), to 1. Then the menu actually worked. This thread has other things you could address as well if that isn't the problem. https://www.reddit.com/r/swaywm/comments/pkw44a/firefox_92_doesnt_render_menus_burger_menu_right/


TheSnaggen

Yes, according to https://mastransky.wordpress.com/2021/10/01/firefox-wayland-development-in-2021/ , it should be in 94 with improved Wayland clipboard support.


SpinaBifidaOcculta

Yay!


dadofbimbim

I want Firefox to be successful again.


qXv_

No matter how much Firefox improves, normies will still use Google Chrome.


theephie

That's why abuse of monopolies is bad.


aleixpol

That's what they used to say about Microsoft internet explorer.


Storyshift-Chara-ewe

Or Chrome on Android, I guess being the default is a thing


luistp

I'm a normie? Maybe. I love Firefox, still. I also love the native profiles feature in Chrome. Hopefully they will implement something similar in Firefox.


prakashchetan98

Firefox have the profiles feature.


IterativeSieve

> With 94, you’ll find a selection of six fun seasonal Colorways (available for a limited time only) XUL died for this.


Pelera

As an user, I want my browser to have [checks note] ... limited time color schemes ... so that... I... ???


IterativeSieve

The year is 2027. I finally used enough Google^^tm OpenSurveillance^^tm services to fill my Firefox XP bar. I excitedly crack open my Mozilla^^tm lootbox. An epic skin for Firefox and 2 weeks of Rust LSP access. Success.


Popular-Egg-3746

> please drink a verification can


goldsrcmasterrace

[For anyone who hasn’t seen it.](https://external-preview.redd.it/qRggs-k588dZAM2uBK3FH4xOih9LEaq0FCcZdkYm2uw.png?auto=webp&s=437dc136ba2ee6da358527bb368707ca2b375447)


Darth_Tiktaalik

Of Ubuntu cola


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IterativeSieve

Did you just call me a worm? Banned from ~~the internet~~ MetaVerse^^tm brought to you by Carl's Jr.


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nandru

Zuck the Overlord!


KingStannis2020

XUL died because it was horrible.


zackyd665

At least out gave users full control


nifty-shitigator

It also gave malware extensions full control.


CAT5AW

What is XUL? I have been using one theme since 2015 or so and it still works. Last updated in december 2020. Firefox BlackRainbow by rafael.


PinappleButtPlug

XUL was the language in which Firefox extensions used to be written. With XUL you could change a lot in the browser and many great add-ons were written in it. The downsides were that there were security risks and it prevented FF from becoming faster. So XUL was replaced with WebExtensions (WE), which addressed the issues of XUL and because it was written in html/css/js, it made it easier for many developers to work with it. WE is also what Chrome uses, so if you make a Firefox add-on it should be easy to get it working on Chrome. When Firefox removed XUL 2017 all existing extensions stopped working. Not all could be replaced with WE because these new add-ons didn't have as much permissions as XUL add-ons. and that sucked for many users of these add-ons. Over time WE gained more possibilities although they still can't, and never will, do everything that was possible with XUL. Some people are still salty about this fact and feel the need to say something about this every time Firefox is mentioned. Edit: about the theme you're using the first version [seems to be released](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/firefox-blackrainbow/versions/) in 2019 and since all extensions stopped working in 2017, I think you might be misremembering since when you've used this theme.


FyreWulff

> With XUL you could change a lot in the browser You could basically change the entire browser if you wanted. Down to the most banal stuff like calculating the scroll bar length. Of course this made almost every extension break in an update because they'd hook into some deep function that developers would never expect anyone use, or didn't make sense to, and obviously impossible to have security against cross-tab snooping or extensions that say they only modify images being able to actually do other things since they could even change the code that loaded the extensions and verified themselves. It was not sustainable in the slightest, but the reason it existed has it's roots in the early 90s and it was basically a quick way to have 'extension' functionality in a program.


CAT5AW

Wayyy off topic but i just found out that the in browser "last updated" field also refers to the download date... Not the plugins update release day. Pretty odd! My laptop claims 1st September 2020 and another pc 3rd of december 2020. I'm pretty sure i had the theme before 2019 (like i had a screenshot of FF's password manager from windows 7 days). Fuel for thought indeed.


__konrad

`there.is.only.xul`


lykwydchykyn

At least I can now customize my keyboard shortcuts! . . . . . . Just kidding. no, I still can't. :-(


Cyber_Daddy

just found out about yesterday that they removed that apparently quite some time ago. great job mozilla /s. someone please give librewolf the resouces to make bigger changes


Neutronst4r

Jesus fucking christ, Mozilla devs are out of touch with reality.


PDXPuma

No, power users are out of touch with reality. We use computers in ways that literally the rest of the world does not comprehend. They just want pretty web browsers, and they are by far the majority. We're the ones out of touch with how the rest of the world "uses" computers and have been for awhile.


and_dont_blink

>No, power users are out of touch with reality. We use computers in ways that literally the rest of the world does not comprehend. They just want pretty web browsers, and they are by far the majority. You are right, but it's missing the larger picture. Normal users will never switch from the default. They have no reason to, and for every thing about privacy etc Mozilla crows about there are three other reasons why they just won't switch. They aren't google shoving chrome down your throat when you interact with every service. It just isn't going to happen. If you look at Mozilla and Firefox's history though, they had two main things going for them. Originally it was first mover advantage where everyone had to download a browser and they were known. The second time was when Firefox was spun off and web developers and power users were entirely sick of IE's dominance holding everything back and causing real harm. Power users within companies, websites, blogs, etc evangelized the absolute hell out of it to coworkers, friends, family members and I'm sure some randoms on the subway. Mozilla got a bunch of cash from Google/etc. and hired a whole lot of people who care more about other things than creating the best standards-compliant browser that can be made using technical choices instead of political or business reasons. Without that, Mozilla is stuck in this weird area of slowly and surely dropping in numbers. Nothing they are doing right now will change that, and on some level they know it.


Neutronst4r

I am obviously not criticizing their decision to make the browser more pretty. The joke here is, that those color schemes are only temporarily available.


Cryogeniks

Maybe I misunderstand your sense of humor, but I don't see how that joke is "funny".


maikindofthai

I get that you're just trying to be snarky and disparaging, but I seriously doubt it's the "Mozilla devs" who are making the product decision to have time-limited color themes.


IterativeSieve

Well yes… that’s the problem. Whoever’s making these decisions I would really like for them to stop. I’d literally pay for them to stop.


xelaseer

I was a bit confused, but they mentioned elsewhere the feature isn't going away, they are just going to refresh the colours every few releases.


IterativeSieve

Firefox, when it was successful, catered to the power user. Then it stopped catering to the power user in order to fail at catering to people who don't care and use Chrome because they always have or Edge because it's the default. [And then it started hemorrhaging users](https://news.itsfoss.com/firefox-decline/).


Waryle

You are rewriting history. Firefox gained traction when it became way better than Internet Explorer. Chrome gained traction when it became the fastest browser available by far, and when it started to be bundled with numerous software (like CCleaner for example). Mozilla stopped catering to the power user when Firefox started to fall to try to limit the damage.


CAP_NAME_NOW_UPVOTE

>And then it started hemorrhaging users. It's gone up by about 15 million since according to the same stats in that article, which was used from Firefox itself: https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity Worth noting, blog sites like that and aren't allowed as top level submissions here and we do that because users should be pulling latest, accurate information.* \* there are hundreds of "browser stats" websites out there that I'm sure show a Firefox decline; I'm focusing on the official Mozilla install numbers which was the source used in the above blog.


gabbergandalf667

Firefox greeting me today with "try feature XYZ, available for a limited time only!" ELI5 why I should spend even a second trying out a feature that was already introduced with a shelf life.


luistp

I don't get it either. Sorry, no ELI5.


xelaseer

I was confused as well, but they mentioned elsewhere that they will refresh the default theme choices every few releases. So the feature isn't going away, only the specific colours.


gabbergandalf667

Ok, in that case, terrible wording. Is it just me or is firefox spending inordinate amounts of work on utterly useless UI overhauls lately? I still don't understand the value proposition of Proton, other than getting me even more intimately familiar with `about:config` to fix the monstrously huge tabs.


xelaseer

I agree it is confusing. I actually quite like proton, except for the sizing as you've mentioned. Compact mode is the best. They said they are going to look at re-supporting it as a first-class citizen so here's hoping that will fix a lot of complaints, myself included.


gabbergandalf667

That's good to hear!


DemeGeek

> Firefox no longer warns you by default when you exit the browser or close a window using a menu, button, or three-key command. This should cut back on unwelcome notifications which is always nice. ...I personally don't get how silent data loss is a feature.


tendstofortytwo

I think at this point it's very well-established that closing a browser window means closing all tabs. To me, the warning feels very redundant, a waste of time and a click. If you want it, you can always re-enable it.


DemeGeek

Sure until you go to use `Ctrl-W` to close one tab or `Ctrl-A` to select all only to miss and whoops, `Ctrl-Q`, there go them all.


tendstofortytwo

It's only happened to me once or twice and I tend to just use the "restore previous session" thing in the menu at those times .


DemeGeek

Upon further thought on it, the average user probably won't experience any issues with this, as anyone doing something complex enough probably has the settings changed to work in their favour.


ThellraAK

Alright, any way to turn off controlQ? That one gets me at least once a week.


DemeGeek

I've found `browser.quitShortcut.disabled` which can be set to `true` in `about:config` to disable the shortcut completely. I previously had issue where it would quit without warning using that shortcut a few years ago when I got told about `browser.sessionstore.warnOnQuit` which still sits in my `about:config` and I don't feel like testing if it still does anything.


ThellraAK

Thank you for your service.


TheWheez

`Ctrl-Shift-T` to open the most recently closed tab


DemeGeek

Thanks for the info but it's not relevant to the conversation.


fliphopanonymous

Neither is your second comment lol, `Ctrl-Q` is a two finger command so it'll still prompt.


daemonpenguin

The release notes says three-button combinations, not two. Ctrl-Q is only two buttons, so according to the release notes it won't trigger the prompt.


DemeGeek

Yes, that's the issue they were pointing out with my comment, and they are right. I missed that.


thoomfish

I really wish this worked across windows like it does in Chrome. I always forget and angrily mash the keys for a few seconds before I remember there's a *separate* binding for reopening a closed window.


TheWheez

What is the binding for a closed window? I've been frustrated similarly


thoomfish

`Ctrl-Shift-N`


Maneatsdog

Wait, does this mean it will stop warning me my tabs will be closed? How can I mitigate from this issue? I don't want to lose my open tabs


DemeGeek

You have to go in and [re-enable previous default functionality in the settings](https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-configure-close-tab-warnings-firefox).


sub200ms

> Wait, does this mean it will stop warning me my tabs will be closed? How can I mitigate from this issue? I don't want to lose my open tabs Besides enabling the warning again, you can also use the "Restore Previous Session" from the "History" menu, if you accidentally close Firefox with many tabs open. IMHO, a "undo" function like the above is much more useful than various "are you sure?" warnings.


pest15

Unless you use temporary tab containers and everything is lost on restart.


Han-ChewieSexyFanfic

Then I suggest not doing that.


DaffBaffz

It said it’s still available as an option; it’s just not default behavior anymore.


s_s

I don't think it will change anything for you unless you start a new user profile. It's just a different default behavior.


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Popular-Egg-3746

Cheers in Flathub!


IGFXH2077

For real, if you use debian, flatpaks are a life saver


AnotherRetroGameFan

If you use Debian Stable that is.


Arnas_Z

Yes, because they literally can't be bothered to update their browsers in the repo. I don't know about you, but Chromium eighty-fucking-nine is not what I would call a great idea to use in 2021. And they don't even have Firefox stable in the repo! Only ESR. Debian is great for server because of it's stability, and I do use Debian for that. But for desktop, it's horrendous trash. I shouldn't have to resort to using a bunch of out-of-repo software to have a decent system. If I can't rely on the distro's repo for software, then what do I need that distro for?


CAP_NAME_NOW_UPVOTE

> Yes, because they literally can't be bothered to update their browsers in the repo. False, they are updated with latest security patches. Do not state false information like this. They stick to a major, LTS version for a reason. If you don't like that reason, Firefox officially has binaries and FlatHub (among other reasons) and other browsers also offer binaries. Edit: and ESR is stable...


Arnas_Z

Yes, I know that the ESR Firefox is technically up to date in terms of security patches. Also, I get that ESR is stable, but the normal Firefox channel is stable too. Why not package that instead? Firefox officially has binaries... but if you use it, you can't rely on `sudo apt upgrade` to update it, and Firefox instead updates like it does in Windows. That's not ideal either. However, Chromium is version 89 on Buster, and 90 on Bullseye. They are NOT AT ALL up to date, not even in a security sense. Honestly, I think it's a better idea to use Brave or Vivaldi on Debian with third party repos. At least they get regularly updated, and you can update them through apt like the rest of the system.


CAP_NAME_NOW_UPVOTE

OK, looks like normal Chromium is having issues: >[As of 2021-10-14 19:19:07, Debian's Chromium package in buster, bullseye and bookworm repository remains vulnerable to numerous CVEs as outlined in the Chromium Security Tracker. Consider using an alternative browser like Firefox, Brave or ungoogled-chromium.](https://wiki.debian.org/Chromium) Oddly they mention [ungoolged-chromium](https://wiki.debian.org/ungoogled-chromium) is OK. >Honestly, I think it's a better idea to use Brave or Vivaldi on Debian with third party repos. Terrible idea to both, one is a crypto scam pusher and the other has a lot of closed source elements. Firefox updates their FlatPak, not sure why that can't meet your need if you're already talking about using third party repos.


Arnas_Z

Well, I never did like Flatpaks and Snaps. I would never use Snap (what a bloated mess), but I did use Flatpak back when I was using Debian 10 on a 32-bit Intel P4. (Arch Linux 32 is pretty unstable, and Ubuntu + derivatives discontinued support, so Debian was one of my few good choices.) I used a couple Flatpaks, but I didn't like how it needed extra libraries installed, and updates are handled separately from apt. Just another thing to manage and more bloat. Programs installed this way would also use more space than a repo program. Also, I don't have a problem with Brave. They are open source, and the crypto stuff is opt in. It is annoying that upon installing it you need to go through every single setting and mass disable stuff, but once cleaned up, it's pretty decent. As an alternative to pure Chromium, I think it's fine. Vivaldi's core is foss chromium code, but yes, there are closed source parts (basically the entire UI). This is why it would only be a third or fourth choice in the browser list. But still, it's not like all closed source software is inherently bad. The only issue is you can't verify that it isn't. But ultimately, pure Chromium is my default choice. It works well, and is fast and reliable. All the other distros don't seem to have a single issue with keeping their Chromium up to date, whether it be Fedora, Linux Mint (won't include Ubuntu since that's a Snap there), Arch Linux, or their derivatives. But somehow, Debian's Chromium package is consistently having issues. Maybe it's caused by the extremely outdated base that Debian Stable is, but in any case, it's not acceptable for me if I need to use that distro as a main desktop OS.


nofxy

>it's horrendous trash. Your opinion is trash. Debian is for anyone who wants stability - regardless of server or desktop system. Yes you get the latest and greatest with , but if a stable OS works, why would you consider it trash? You come off like an fanboy tbh. ​ >I shouldn't have to resort to using a bunch of out-of-repo software to have a decent system. If I can't rely on the distro's repo for software, then what do I need that distro for Your OS has EVERY piece of software every human can ever use? Which magical OS is this?


Arnas_Z

>Your OS has EVERY piece of software every human can ever use? Which magical OS is this? No, it doesn't, of course not. But when your OS is missing a significant amount of software that is available on other distros, then I would consider that a pretty serious disadvantage. >Yes you get the latest and greatest with , but if a stable OS works, why would you consider it trash? It works, yes, but it obviously has its own issues - the outdated software can be missing important features, and as stated earlier, some popular software like Firefox stable channel isn't even in the repos. And honestly, I've actually been screwed by Debian's "stable" software before where I wouldn't have been on a distro with up to date software. For example, let's take my latest issue with Debian. Debian 10 on armhf had an outdated libseccomp2 package that was causing my docker container to not have an internet connection. I had to fix it by manually installing an updated version of that package. >You come off like an fanboy tbh. Probably because that's about right. I started on stable distros. My first distro was Kubuntu 16.04, then Debian, then Arch Linux. I have also tried Linux Mint and Manjaro for short periods of time. Out of those, I had the best experience with Arch Linux. Its lightweight, has a great package manager, has fairly stable packages with almost no modifications from upstream, and also has access to the AUR, which paired with `yay`, allows me to update my system and my third party AUR packages with one command. Oh, and it also doesn't have dfsg nonsense that you have to fix in order to make your hardware work properly. What's not to love?


nofxy

>Out of those, I had the best experience with Arch Linux I'm glad your experience trumps everyone else's and every use-case. >But when your OS is missing a significant amount of software that is available on other distros Sounds like a personal problem - I personally only have Discord and Darktable via flatpak. I've installed the Firefox binary and have had zero issues and a 100% working desktop/laptop/servers for the last several years. Same for my tech-illiterate friends/family. I don't want to waste any effort to ensure my OS continues working year after year. >I started on stable distros. My first distro was Kubuntu 16.04, then Debian, then Arch Linux. I have also tried Linux Mint and Manjaro for short periods of time. I've also used all those distros - started with Ubuntu 4.10 about 17 years ago. Jumped to Arch, Mint, Vector Linux, Puppy, DSL, Fedora, Redhat - you name it, I've probably tried it. The one I've found to be the most reliable is Debian. I'm not saying its perfect, nothing is, just saying you should tone it down a notch just because it doesn't fit your preference. I've deployed it to probably hundreds of systems both in production and to personal friends/family over the last few years, so I'd say its far from "horrendous trash". In fact, my latest woes come from a laptop I've been playing around with - nothing special installed - just a clean Manjaro install and pacman appears to be failing. This is a system that's *just* the OS without any tweaks from me, also an ARM CPU. Was at work today thinking about installing Debian on it since Majaro appears to have failed the basics. RIP my Dell mini 10 which served as a personal home server for nearly 10 years before the hardware crapped out on me - it had Debian installed of course. >allows me to update my system and my third party AUR packages with one command. That's cool. I let my systems auto update on a schedule, apt and flatpak. Doesn't matter how short/long the command is if I never have to run it. >Oh, and it also doesn't have dfsg nonsense that you have to fix in order to make your hardware work properly. What's not to love? What's wrong with the DFSG\[0\]? There's 10 items, what do you disagree with? I've had zero issues and, again, I've run it on tons of different hardware. \[0\] [https://www.debian.org/social\_contract.html#guidelines](https://www.debian.org/social_contract.html#guidelines) Anyway, lets not shit on each other as a community. Each OS works in some use-cases, some work/don't work for others. Don't be \_that\_ Arch user.


unkend

Linux mint has 94 in the repo just updated to it


IterativeSieve

All FlatHub really needs to do is just delete those user reviews. Or is it Gnome Software's problem? Good intentions but man is it the peanut gallery of Linux. I'm looking at Firefox's reviews right now and they're not exactly... useful. >5 stars - **nice** - live steram not supote >1 star - **VERY BAD!** - Version 92 won't plat videos! Pathetic! >1 star - **NOT the REAL DOWNLOAD** - this is a proprietary download. Look for the download from Mozilla as a Developer on the Ubuntu Software store. "Firefox Web Browser" doesn't work.


FlatAds

Those are from ODRS, and are the same for any package format that uses Firefox’s AppStream ID. It’s nothing to do with GNOME Software or Flathub.


Popular-Egg-3746

Those reviews are quite funny though. Saw Matthew Miller (head-chef Fedora Project) complain about Hardware Probe the other day 🤣


W-a-n-d-e-r-e-r

Same for Mozilla's own repo on openSUSE.


MasterPatricko

Note that the obs mozilla repo is openSUSE's repo for mozilla software, the work is done by openSUSE devs, not mozilla devs directly packaging for openSUSE.


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Lucius_Martius

You always can, but I prefer to compile an EME-less version for myself. Also, the self-built version doesn't rely on bundled libs, which helps to save RAM and is more secure. PS: The compile times are not so bad either. It's less than half of Chromium for me, almost a third.


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burning_iceman

The answer is in your link: > As of Firefox 94, users using Mesa driver >= 21 will get it by default. Users of the proprietary Nvidia driver will need to wait a little bit longer as the currently released drivers lack an important extension. However, most likely we’ll be able to enable EGL on the 470 series onwards. DMABUF support (and thus better WebGL performance) requires GBM support and will be limited to the 495 series onwards.


perkited

I've been having video tearing issues in Firefox for a quite a few releases (I don't run a compositor), I'm hoping these WebGL changes might eventually be able to help with that. For some reason videos in the Chromium-based browsers don't tear, I don't know if Chromium has something built-in to stop that from happening or if it's using a different technology.


Darkspirit1337

On all platforms it's the compositor's job to prevent tearing. On X11, one can use a regular compositor (recommended) or a legacy in-driver compositor (e.g. TearFree option of the deprecated Intel DDX driver). If you have Nvidia, enable Nvidia X Server Settings > X Server Display Configuration > Advanced > Force Composition Pipeline. If you want the performance of non-composited X11 without tearing, you could try out Wayland. (Gnome Wayland is recommended for most users. Sway is like i3.) Start Firefox with MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1 envionment variable on Wayland to use the native Wayland backend instead of Xwayland.


perkited

Thanks. I've tried using a compositor and also enabling the composition pipeline (I do use the Nvidia proprietary driver) and they remove the tearing but they also cause stuttering in Firefox videos and games. I'm on openSUSE Tumbleweed and I was planning to give Sway a try whenever the Nvidia 495 drivers land in the repo, just to see how things go with Wayland.


spacepawn

Still no hardware acceleration? 🙁


derpbynature

It seems like it's been there for many users since Firefox 84. [There's also a bug-tracker linked in this blog post that shows the status on other configurations.](https://mastransky.wordpress.com/2021/01/10/firefox-were-finally-getting-hw-acceleration-on-linux/)


JanewaDidNuthinWrong

How much of a memory hog is site isolation?


neon_overload

If I'm not mistaken, this release marks the end of support for Firefox 78 ESR, being the 4th new version after the newer ESR. Is that right? How long until distros start replacing 78 ESR with 91 ESR? Edit: 91 ESR is now in Debian unstable at least for some archs


ccxex29

Nobody is going to talk about how firefox will install updates in the background on Windows? Okay.


Alexander0232

It's actually what the majority want. I know here techies like to know what changes were made, see what bugs are present and decide when to update, but most users just want to open the browser and focus on work or whatever.


kogasapls

Just... Download and install in the background while Firefox is open. Don't add opt-out background services to suck up bandwidth and CPU cycles doing this stuff. Then I'm fine with auto updates.


nofxy

It's about to be 2022. Checking for updates in the background isn't sucking up bandwidth or using any significant CPU cycles.


kogasapls

Checking for updates no, but downloading updates *can*. Anyway, "significant" or not, surely I don't need to explain why sneaky background services shouldn't be "opt out" on r/linux. Having to unfuck my computer when I'm not the one who fucked it is something I'm happy to be free of on Linux.


MonokelPinguin

One of the feedbacks I heard the most from normal users about Firefox, is that the update prompts were annoying and it should just update in the background like most other software on Windows. For most people this is an improvement.


nofxy

>I don't need to explain why sneaky background services shouldn't be "opt out" on r/linux. You should definitely at least read/understand the article before you voice displeasure. This is specific to Windows only. Nothing to do with r/linux.


kogasapls

I know it's on Windows only, and I knew that when I wrote the post. I didn't say it was a feature of Linux. I said that I should hope that my point is clear in a place like r/linux.


Adopt_a_Mud_Golem

I mean, this is an enthusiast sub, but for 99.X percent of people the answer to the question "Do you want to apply security updates to your most exposed, attacked and complex software?" is a definite "Yes!".


Arnas_Z

Actually, HELL NO is probably what most would answer. That's why they took away the option to never check for updates. They don't care about updates or what benefits they provide, so updates that cause change are considered an inconvenience.


Adopt_a_Mud_Golem

Yeah, that's what i meant, but phrased weirdly. Most people don't know enough about security to even make an informed decision about this, so for them someone with the knowledge has to decide or we'll never get out of the eternal september of ready-to-exploit boxes.


StageIntelligent7395

Well, the average Windows user doesn't bother with updates anyway. Or avoids them as much as possible.


iAmHidingHere

It seems to be a trend. I think I saw an Ubuntu do that also.


ign1fy

Why doesn't in it just use the update mechanism built into the OS? Oh, that's right. Windows. It's the Wild West where every app fends for itself.


neon_overload

Well, Microsoft is moving in the directions of turning Windows into the Microsoft store OS. Presumably the downsides of distributing and updating Firefox through the Microsoft store outweigh the benefits?


Arnas_Z

On the bright side, at least you only have to rely on one organization for updates. Updates on Linux are slightly delayed from initial drop by the software maker because the update has to make it into the repos first.


primalbluewolf

At least on Arch, you don't have to wait for several sets of repos to update.... *cries in Manjaro repos*


Arnas_Z

Oof, yeah. Manjaro is weird. They hold back updates for a couple weeks, and then claim that it's suddenly all very stable? Seriously, Manjaro is sometimes less stable than Arch itself. I would recommend you try normal Arch instead. If you don't want to do a normal cli install, Arch even includes the archinstall script now for easy guided installation.


primalbluewolf

Its more that I've enjoyed the case of it working by default... but it doesn't, always. Bash doesn't scare me off, installing seems like it would just be a case of follow the wiki. Its more a case of everything mostly works, and I don't want to dive into trying another distro... but I kind of do. Maybe I should get another SSD and try dual boot it for shits and giggles.


190n

Seems like a good change.


CalcProgrammer1

Always-on updater service to slow down startup and waste RAM? Yay?


Arnas_Z

You can disable it, that's how I have it configured on my Windows install. https://i.imgur.com/pmHCuIv.png


speq

Dude, bring back extensions in Android before creating limited-time color themes.


Offbeatalchemy

It's almost like there's different teams working on different things...


12345Qwerty543

What if I told you these people are making the same money, from the same company, whose resources are able to be diverted to different teams Eg: fire artists and hire more engine developers.


Offbeatalchemy

I would tell you in response that we both don't have enough insight into the company to see what their resources are and say how they should be divided amongst their staff and what their priority should be.


Cyber_Daddy

i have enough insight to see that 400k for a management position is very undeserved


xhsdf

What do you mean? Bring back? They are still there for me?


Arnas_Z

They are there, just not the full list of addons is officially "compatible" yet.


speq

Only a short list of extensions are available for Android.


anxietydoge

Seems like a cool release, but they really could have presented the idea of Colorways better. I think [the blog post](https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/introducing-new-colorways-for-firefox-94/) does a much better job of painting a positive picture of their intentions. When you say "available for a limited time only" and leave it at that, it truly does sound like dark pattern bullshit.


CondiMesmer

Have been waiting for fission for like a year now, and it's here. Hell yeah.


Cuntable

It gud?


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IcarusAvery

It's a release note, not a changelog. The changelog is elsewhere. This is built as more of a "what we changed for folks who aren't power users"


pest15

Yeah, I cannot stand this kind of marketing language. It also doesn't translate well across cultures ("California hipster" isn't a universal thing).


YouCanIfYou

Maybe there's a difference between Release Notes and a more traditional [changelog](https://www.ghacks.net/2021/11/02/firefox-94-0-release-here-is-what-is-new-and-changed/).


mosquito90

I've used Firefox for years, but the lack of native support for dark mode is something that has become difficult.


tektektektektek

You realise that web designers are responsible for the white background, don't you?


Useful-Advice-1705

I switched over to brave because it had consistent dark mode, from the settings page, to the add ons page and the webpages. I stopped using Firefox because a new start page or settings page would be in light mode while every other application and webpage I use is in dark mode in turn blinding me.